Ae you available to speak on the CVS threat Tuesday?

I have a fantastic idea that will allow us to have a good grocery there forever, and makes sure Winthrop makes money. I just need to write it up and pitch it to the right people. Stay tuned, humans. 

Wait for the three story mega store. Coming to a building near you. Parking garage next.

"No, but that will never happen. That is unless they improve the building and expand the footprint. They couldn't ever do that......... Could they?"

Friend of Matt

Never! The Island Service wharf will never change. Scallop shanties, ice house, fueling dock will be there forever......Er....never mind.

Rest easy, Matt. The system worked the way it's supposed to, right? Regardless of what goes in that space -- and like Matt, I'm explicitly not in favor of CVS there, and I'm glad the corporate honchos saw the wisdom of not pursuing it -- the larger issue will remain as to how the island's economy can support ANYTHING in that space that won't somehow impact the quality of life for locals. It's very easy to be "for" or "against" something on purely philosophical grounds, but when the rubber hits the road, it's a question of economics. There needs to be discussion about balancing the NEEDS of the community with the WANTS of the community, because right now, there doesn't seem to be a legitimate solution. Before the next idea gets floated by Winthrop or the Nantucket rumor mill, it might be wise for the powers-that-be (which should include Winthrop's people and Nantucket's people) to organize a dicussion (read: "not a lynch mob with a specific anti-store agenda") to figure out a solution that's at least pallatable to all parties, taking into account the realities of economic life on Nantucket.

Just ran into a friend who asked why I was "in favor" of CVS.  I explained I wasn't and then asked them what they wanted in the space. 

They replied, "A grocery, that's what we all want there.  We don't need a chain. We need a grocery, not  another pharmacy putting island residents out of business.   We need competition so we have cheaper staples like milk, eggs, and butter."   

I then asked whether they favor a full service "grocery" with a coffee shop, pharmacy, florist, bakery, deli, etc..     

"No, but that will never happen.  That is unless they improve the building and expand the footprint. They couldn't ever do that.........  Could they?"  ;)

Matt 

The process worked the way it was supposed to work today. Nice work, everyone. 

Makes me wonder if Whole Foods, Big Y or some other full service supermarket that will potentially harm 3 times as many island businesses, along with the pharmacies, is proposed, will residents rally against again as vehemently.

Should be interesting.

Matt

No CVS.  

Grant. We agree. The choice between Fruit Center and CVS is simple.

My concerns are not based on a straw man argument. I assumed Yackers would realize Whole Foods could just as easily be Big Y, Market Basket, or some other monster, multi-service supermarket.

Greg's petition expressed concern about the impact on Island businesses. "They (Winthrop) must not care about local businesses and, therefore, island residents. Bringing in a CVS could be devastating to the three local pharmacies, including one in town that has been there forever, with soda fountain and lunch counter. But the threat wouldn't stop there. CVS stores also sell beer and wine, books, magazines, toys, seasonal items, and even medical care. Many local merchants would feel the pinch. They do not know Nantucket."

My point is simple. Winthrop might rustle up interest from more than solely FCM and CVS. (False dilemma. Explanation below.) If everyone screams loud and clear against a "pharmacy" and for a "grocer", backing Wintrop off, there's no guarantee we will get FCM. It just as easily could be a large, multi-service "grocery" harming many more island businesses.

Matt...still waiting to be convinced to pick up a pitchfork today at 1.

"A false dilemma arises when we allow ourselves to be convinced that we have to choose between two and only two mutually exclusive options, when that is untrue. Generally, when this rhetorical strategy is used, one of the options is unacceptable and repulsive, while the other is the one the manipulator wants us to choose. Whoever succumbs to this trap has thus made a choice that is forced, and as such, of little value."

I signed, not thinking about which grocery might come instead... just so that CVS could not come. After reading what Matt wrote about certain fancy chain stores possibly affecting island businesses, I had never thought of that. It's a good point. I always love Trader's sushi. I suppose it would be cheaper than buying it somewhere else on island.

Can they not just get a Shaws in there? It's more neutral, like Switzerland, right? Just to replace what has been taken away?

Suppose the people talking at the meeting today aren't about to be throwing out proposals of who to fill in. I think the more neutral, normal, typical grocer... What about another Stop & Rob? That way our Shell points go bananas! Although, I don't know if they make Stop & Rob's that small???

I'm on Grant's ignore list, so somebody else will have to explain to him the logical fallacies of omission, which can be better understood here: http://www.emdashprof.com/373/squash/omission.htm. Grant, it seems, is failing to address head-on the actual problem that is the elephant in the room (and thereby omitting said issue from the discussion), specifically the cost of running a business in that space and the economic requirements associated therewith. If a business has to charge X to make enough money to pay the costs, and the consumer base can't afford to pay that price, the business doesn't sell anything. That means they don't make the requisite money to stay in business. That means they go out of business. Again, his argument that a third store on Nantucket for Fruit Center Marketplace will somehow raise their buying power exponentially doesn't hold any water. Look how many Whole Foods there are across the country, yet they still don't have the ability (or the desire, I suppose) to charge less for basic staples than their competition. The addition of a third store -- especially one that will cost as much to operate as one on Nantucket will -- is not going to increase their buying to the point that it will dramatically lower prices. Sorry, welcome to a little planet I like to call reality. And as for those people with nice yachts wanting tartar sauce, they've got people to go out and get it for them. They're not going to be real worried about whether or not it's available on Straight Wharf. And now that you mention it, there's the whole private concierge business -- which includes shopping -- that will actually probably grow from the fact that there's no grocery store in town, meaning a LOCAL business (or two or three) will actually prosper if CVS moves in. 

Your argument leans heavily upon the logical falacy known as the straw man. More here: strawman

The assumption that the only other option is a Whole Foods. The space is too small for a Whole Foods, which typically requires twice that square footage. From what I understand, both Trader Joes and Whole Foods has  said "no" to Nantucket when the market option in the mid island was floated by the developer who eventially sold out to Stop & Shop.

The alternative to CVS would be this: Fruit Center Marketplace. Such a store would not impact the local business scene any more than Grand Union did (or perhaps a little bit more becuase the offering might be a cut above Grand Union). But this, again, is beside the point. There is a need for a grocery store downtown. For people who live downtown and do not drive. For people who work in the area. For people who come to the boat basin with their very nice yachts. 

A CVS would not meet the needs of people who want a pork shoulder, tartar sauce or fresh sage. Fruit Center Marketplace would. And they want to be here. I don't see the problem. 

G. 

Yes and no. The formula retail bylaw specifically exempts grocery chains. It excludes other chains (and defines them clearly) from a very specific area shown in red below. The problem with the current winthrop property is that they are claiming a grandfathered use. And they are claiming the grandfathered use is "formula retail" — essentially a chain. So they are claiming that becuase it was a chain before, it can be a chain again, and any chain at that. (I'm hearing this from Andrew Vorce third hand, mind you, so take that with a grain of salt. Andrew, I know you;re reading this, so feel free to chime in or zap me an email clarifying it. You owe me for not bringing my parking garage article back this year... ). 

The formula retail bylaw does not, however, exclude chains from any other part of the island except what is shown below. So, as we all know, Cumbies moving to another part of the mid island is cool (CVS should definitely take their old space). And putting a wallgreens in Sconset would be fine, at least from a zoning standpoint. 

FYI.

G.

Based on the way that the argument has been phrased to this point, the short answer is yes, so long as they have a grocery store component. That gives them the ability to come in under the grandfather clause that allows grocery stores to operate in that space. And given that the title of this thread involves the imminent "threat" of CVS coming in, I'm assuming that means that the interpretation is accurate andd that "grocery stores" is a loosely-defined term at best. Others with more intimate knowledge of the bylaw might be better able to provide insight, though.

Just a quick question -- with the town bylaw can any grocery store, or any other chain type of store, legally move in to our community?

Good observation Ackdrew.

The economics of the situation needs addressing. One idea that has not been floated is to give Winthrop a break on the real estate taxes allowing lower rents. Perhaps also offering to share some the parking lot expenses could also be considered.

Winthrop has a much smaller real estate interest in the community than it did 10 years ago. I don't see how simply asking for community consideration will sway the owners. (I've heard that the Grand Union had a long-term lease at 1980s prices for MANY years.)

Getting a plan together, that fairly compensates the owner, should be discussed.

The worst thing that could happen is for the community to force the location to be broken up into a number of seasonal shops. The blocking of a CVS could result in Winthrop taking a path of least resistance.

Good observation Ackdrew.

The economics of the situation needs addressing. One idea that has not been floated is to give Winthrop a break on the real estate taxes allowing lower rents. Perhaps also offering to share some the parking lot expenses could also be considered.

Winthrop has a much smaller real estate interest in the community than it did 10 years ago. I don't see how simply asking for community consideration will sway the owners. (I've heard that the Grand Union had a long-term lease at 1980s prices for MANY years.)

Getting a plan together, that fairly compensates the owner, should be discussed.

The worst thing that could happen is for the community to force the location to be broken up into a number of seasonal shops. The blocking of a CVS could result in Winthrop taking a path of least resistance.

In the interest of clarifying the argument against CVS, is the suggestion that a boutique grocery-style grocery store is better because it a) fits in better with the character of the island and b) has a "softer" impact on other local businesses?

I can understand the former, as I don't think a big pharmacy/convenience store is the most apropos store to inhabit that space. That said, as Matt pointed out, it's basic economics. You have to be able to sell products at enough of a profit to pay the rent, not to mention other expenses associated with running a business. In the case of a boutique, that means selling products at a much higher price than the average year-round person can afford, simply because they don't have the ability to purchase in bulk from wholesalers (and get the corresponding quantity discount), which means they have to charge higher prices in order to hit that profit number. Trader Joe's or Whole Foods or Fresh Market or whatever other panacea-of-the-week you want to name is going to have to charge higher prices than Stop-and-Shop. It's a fact of life on Nantucket. Things cost more. And when you shop at higher-end retailers (including grocery stores), the price increase is in lock-step with the island's economy. You think the S&S is expensive? Wait until you try to buy a gallon of milk at Whole Foods. There won't be any competition for Stop-and-Shop; it will merely make S&S look like that much more of a bargain, when the alternative is twice as expensive. And what happens when people suddenly realize that their fight against a business that can actually afford to operate in that space -- albeit in a fashion that's not necessarily part of the historic fabric -- in order to get their flavor of the month grocery store that they can't afford? That store loses money, eventually moves out, creating yet another revolving door of a retail location. It's important to realize, too, as Matt pointed out, that these boutique grocery stores also carry wine, fish, and vegetables, not to mention pharmacy-related products. So if it's one-stop shopping, what's to encourage people to shop locally at the other pharmacies or liquor stores or butchers or farms?

There's a line from Ted Talley's play "Terra Nova" that seems to describe this situation. Talley is writing about the doomed Scott expedition to the South Pole. Robert Scott is hallucinating about his rival, Roald Amundsen, as he looks at his dying men. Amundsen asks him to consider a fox with its leg stuck in a trap. The fox will, Amundsen points out, chew off its own leg to get out of the trap and save itself. He then poses the question: Which do you love? The leg or the trap? I pose the same question to Nantucketers: Do you love the historic fabric of downtown to the point that you're willing to either pay exponentially more for your groceries or would you rather be able to afford to feed your family and live somewhere slightly above a subsistence level?

I, for one, am not in favor of a CVS on-island. I think the whole idea sucks. But I think, too, that the economy of the island that has made so many people so much money -- more money than they ever could have conceived of making elsewhere -- has created a situation whereby those people can't have their cake and eat it, too. If you want to live the high life, you'll have to pay for it. And when you can't afford it any longer, expect to be passed over for someone else.

It's easy for people who own a home here where they spend less than 20% of the year here or others to put down a Nantucket address but it is what it is.  

When discussing places like Trader Joe's, Whole Foods and the like, what about dry goods? Pampers, paper towels, toilet paper, not to mention baby formula, food for animals, I could go on.   Would you rather see a grocery style Target or Walmart imagine the businesses that would impact!

Maybe part of me resides in the dark side.  It seems many anti-CVS posters are pro-Whole Foods or another full service, chain, supermarket in that location.  Return me to the light so I can carry a pitchfork tommorrow by answering my earlier question.

Wouldn't a Whole Foods which included top notch florist, bakery, pharmacy, prepared foods, coffee shop, liquor store, deli including pizzeria, meat market and produce sections, etc. impact many more Island businesses much worse?

And there's plenty of me that is in the light, wary of conglomerate, off island, big business.  I suggested a Pike Place style permanent farmers market in this location that would enable many small Island businesses run by year round residents to prosper, but this idea gained little traction and elicited no earlier discussion.

Matt 

Yeah, Matt:

I cannot beleive you are arguing in favor of CVS. The world truly has gone over to the dark side. 

And no, it's not "fun" to be against stuff. "Fun" was supporting the formula retail bylaw in the first place. Now that we have to defend it against a lot of high-priced lawyers, it's definitely not fun. 

(And the high speed car ferries wsas a bad idea then, it's a bad idea now. What has gotten into you? Have you just given up on this island?)

Here's a little something to share on facebook, twitter and pinterest for those of you who have not given up. print it out and bring it to tomorrow's meeting to wave at the Selectmen in case you don't get a chance to speak. 

Do the math.  $35,000 a month is real money.  With taxes, insurance and TON fees, a business is facing half a million a year fixed costs.  Prior to utilities, employees and costs of goods.  A restaurant would have to do approximately 5 million a year to survive. 

Part of me keeps thinking we might better be careful what we wish for.  I agree on first blush, CVS sounds miserable.  But if it is a "super-market" version CVS, servicing the boaters and downtown residents with affordable prices, isn't that the best we might get, understanding it stinks for the 3 Island pharmacies for sure.  Wouldn't a Whole Foods which included top notch florist, bakery, pharmacy, prepared foods, coffee shop, liquor store, deli including pizzeria, meat market and produce sections, etc. impact many more Island businesses much worse?

It's fun to be against stuff.  I recall the highly charged meeting at the high school opposing the high speed car ferries.  Yet, in retrospect, and in light of increasing personnel costs, and the popularity of the high speed boat travel, the idea was solid. 

Matt

The vast majority of the signers are year-rounders. 

How many of those 3000 live here year round?

 When Grand Union was here I did maybe 10% of my monthly shopping there, if a Trader Joes, Whole (Paycheck) Foods or the like go there it will be about the same.  If it's Wegman's or Market Basket we are talking 95-100%

By tomorrow morning, 3,000 people will have signed the petition stating they will not shop at CVS. Clearly there is a differing opinion out there. Let's see what happens on Tuesday. 

Please start another thread if you wish to break off onto a parking discussion. 

Specifically why I said nothing about UPC codes.

Specifically why I said nothing about UPC codes.

How do you propose town administration address it?

Matt

Except for bread. At Something Natural we bake fresh every day, except Christmas, New Years and Easter. And we can't sell without a UPC code.

Matt

I've lived here for 20 years and I agree with Ackdrew.  And you know what folks?  Parking still going to be a BIG problem.  I think we all have our heads in the sand if we don't address that issue...

Just remember on thing folks, if the product at the local guy has a sku sticker or a plu sticker on it, it is not grown or produced here.

Stop and Shop in Hingham is less expensive than Stop and Shop on Nantucket. But FCM in Hingham is more expensive than Whole Foods in the same area. "They sell some hard-to-find, regional brands. But the prices are becoming prohibitively expensive." On the plus side the next reviews says  it's "Not as snobby as the Milton Fruit Center."

It's wonderful that some people can afford to pay more for their groceries than Stop and Shop charges. Most can't. Want good produce? Shop local at Bartlett's. Continue to support Cowboy's when you need choice cuts of meat. CVS may not be that answer but (another) expensive grocery is not the right change for the island.

I have no doubt that the produce looks great. I have serious doubts that a third store on Nantucket will "dramatically increase their buying power," but that's based on pure speculation, which is based on the fact that the Nantucket market will not be able to afford to patronize this place to the point that they'll be buying in massive numbers. The fact that the prices are lower at an off-island store than they are at the Nantucket Stop and Shop is equivalent to saying that there should be a Texaco on-island, because I saw cheaper gas at a Texaco in Richmond than I paid in Nantucket, so it must be less expensive.

And then things get interesting. Grant wrote, "If FCM comes in here and offers better produce, I'm there. Regardless of the price. Better meats, count me in. I often buy at Cowboys becasue of the quality..."

So FCM comes in (a multi-store chain that is owned and operated by off-island people), and LOCAL businesses lose. Isn't the whole idea here to PREVENT that from happening? FCM coming in means, according to your words Grant, that you'll go there over Cowboys and Bartletts and other locally-owned places. So if you're a standard-bearer here, what does that say for the future of Cowboys? Of Bartletts? Of Moors End? 

So which is it, Nantucket? Do you like the quaint little local businesses that you can't afford to shop in, or the bigger businesses owned by evil summer people with a McMansion in Monomoy (oh wait, are they not evil this week, since they're proposing something other than CVS? I can't keep track)? It's a question for the ages. And one, I think, that bears a little consideration before you start pining for things you don't really want.

Greg Hinson was at a FCM today and took pictures. They are on Facebook. From the look of the produce (excellent) and the prices (lower than S&S on Nantucket), I would say there is room for them to make a profit here. Having a third stor will dramatically increase their buying power. 

Let's face it, the only way to shop on Nantucket is to not look at the prices. Food is expensive here. One reason is there is no competition. If FCM comes in here and offers better produce, I'm there. Regardless of the price. Better meats, count me in. I often buy at Cowboys becuase of the quality, not becuase I like paying a premium price. 

Either way, an expensive grocer is better for Nantucket than a cheap pharmacy. 

Seems like being second in line for the lease is like being the backup quarterback on a professional football team. Everybody loves the backup, he's always the one we REALLY need when the team is playing poorly. Then he gets tossed in to the game, can't do what everyone expected of him, and so suddenly HIS backup becomes the next golden child.

I looked at the Fruit Center Marketplace website. One of the "featured" links is wine and cheese baskets. Lovely. Another quasi-gourmet store, with many products nobody can afford after Labor Day, and many products which nobody actually needs after the same date. But it's a grocery store, so everyone is happy. Until they realize that Bartletts is a grocery store, too. Why don't more people shop there? Too far out of town? It's ten minutes, with plenty of parking. Could it possibly be because it's too expensive for the average family to afford? 

Check out the Yelp reviews of Fruit Center Marketplace. Phrases lke "more expensive" and "a little lofty" and "prohibitively expensive" are used to describe the pricing. And that's the first three reviews for an off-island location. Now tack on the Nantucket premium, and the fact is that Fruit Center Marketplace will make everyone feel real good because it's not a big ugly chain store (which both GU and the A&P were, but that's another story altogether). But then when nobody can afford it, FCM will be abandoned and it will slowly go out of business, too. Welcome to the new normal, Nantucket. You're too expensive to allow a larger "local" business to succeeed, because they don't have the infrastructure or purchasing power to keep prices low enough to satisfy local shoppers, nor can they sell enough groceries at lower prices to afford the prohibitive rents.

This is not to suggest that CVS is the panacea answer here. It's just to suggest that Fruit Center Marketplace or Trader Joe's or Fresh Market or whatever boutique grocery store you want to name is not going to be able to provide the things people are saying they need at prices those people can afford.

I don't know how much or little Grand Union was making. I have this anecdotal evidence Matt posted in another thread: "If this location was such a "cash cow", Tops, who just purchased most of the other GU locations wouldn't have passed on the profit opportunity.  I've delivered bread daily to this store for over 20 years, and it has been in a steady decline over the last few."

I've seen Fruit Center Market's website and read the article. Their customer reviews are very consistent:

"1. Great produce, a little pricey, but always fresh, "

"  It is a bit expensive to do your total shop here so find I often have to make two stops."

"A little more expensive than the regular grocery store, but they also have a nice selection of specialty foods, and a very good produce section, even in the winter."

 "I don't buy meat or fish there unless in a pinch because it is just too expensive (more expensive than Whole Foods) and it isn't even grass fed, all natural etc..."

"I buy my general items at other stores and mainly purchase produce and gourmet items at the Fruit Center.Be aware however, it is quite pricey."

"Lots of organic foods available but I have to agree- the prices are expensive. Because it's close by I go here quite a bit but Trader Joe's and Whole Foods are better for variety and price...they are just further away."

"When it comes to packaged products (e.g., cereals), we stick to getting those at the other supermarkets though, as the prices here are more expensive, and less sales.   "

 "The fresh produce and fruit are wonderful! They are expensive but sometimes you can get a great deal on ripe strawberries etc." 

"the meats, by mckinnon's, are very expensive but incredibly fresh" 

"They are very pricey but the fruit and veggies are extremely fresh."

"As far as grocery items go it is pricey. I'm assuming it's because they're so small and don't order as much. Great for if I need to run in and grab something though. I've gotten the salad bar a few times and it is REALLY good. BUT pricey. " 

Clean. Good selection. Expensive. Before the Nantucket bump. I don't think a boutique grocery store fits the needs of the year-round community. Preferrable to a CVS? In name absolutely. And in selection very likely. But as an actual service to the community? I don't know. I can't afford to pay any more for my groceries than I pay at Stop and Shop right now.

Jake, a co-op would be great. I would jump into that idea with both feet. And I know a few others would like it as well. It would take a lot of work, and I'm wondering if the $35,000 a month rent would be workable for a co-op. Maybe, maybe not. It might be better to try to find a peice of land and create a non-profit for the co-op in order to keep costs down and build equity in the business rather than pay rent to the (apparently evil) Winthrop Managment. 

You can also resd parts of Jason Graziadei's interview with the owners of Fruit Center Marketplace here: Rumor of CVS pharmacy replacing Grand Union sparks petition, talk of boycott

These are not accurate statements.

First, Grand Union closed on Nantucket, not becuase they were not profitable at retail, but becuase they no longer have locations anywhere near here and the logistics of sending food over from their headquarters in Buffalo New York (They also have stores in Vermont) was no longer worth it for them. You can see where they have stores here: Grand Union Store Locator

Second, there is a local supermarket with two other locations that wants to be in that space. They are owned by people who have a summer home here. They know the island. They want to have a location here. And they have a great offering. Just what we need. They have been told by Winthrop that they are second in line for the lease. Here is their web site.  Fruit Center Marketplace

I actually think there is room in the pharmacy business out here. I  find that only one of the three pharmacies is ever very friendly. The other two have rude employees. 

But, I think we should go this route: http://www.citymarket.coop/

A pipe dream, I'm sure.

Jake Allegrini

Toss and Cowboy's are a mile from Grand Union. They're serving the same customer base. Having to leave town for cold cuts (most CVS sell at least the pre-packaged variety) is not ideal and I hope it doesn't come to that. But you can only have so many businesses profiting from the sale of the same goods. Parking at the three places you named is plentiful but I know that's not the point.

A for profit grocery store with the best chance of succeeding in the location, the one which had already invested in all of the necessary infrastructure with an established work force and experienced management was not able to last. It's unlikely that anyone is going to try to replicate what they did.

Let's fight for the right changes. What are they? Is there another brand who would better serve the community which we can convince to come here? Fruit Center Marketplace in my opinion isn't a good fit. The first page of Yelp reviews of their Milton location has 21 mentions of the word "pricey." I don't have any confidence that a "chain" with two stores can keep prices reasonable when they open a third store on Nantucket. Is there an appetite for a community owned and managed co-op? That's something I'd love to get behind.

But Bartlett's is not in town. The Bakery in town is a joke. In my house we call it the Fakery. Cowboys is out of town. So is Toss.

Think about the traffic and parking ramifications of this.

It's true the island has changed. That is inevitable. However, that does not mean we should not fight, and fight hard, for the right changes.

G.

I'm in tune with what the island is about. I've been consciously thinking about what the island is about for nearly as long as you. And I've been living what the island is all about since before then. I don't know if I'm okay with this, but I don't think we know what "this" is yet.

CVS is a massive brand with various types of retail outlets. Pharmacy is their repuation and accounts for the lion's share (but a diminishing percentage) of their profits. Brands evolve. So does the island . Grand Union/A&P was old school. It was there for decades, baking bread and slicing meat but they couldn't survive.

It just may be that what a large CVS offers will sate the needs of the yacht poeple and the people who live downtown. There is another bakery in town. And a florist. Cowboy's, Stop & Shop, Bartlett's and Toss (if and when it opens) might be all the delis we need. Or CVS might have their own. Why did Grand Union go away? Mismanagement or lack of interest/traffic?

We'll have a big, ugly off-island chain opening a brand new grocery store on Sparks Avenue soon enough. They'll leave behind a sea of parking and make available a series of smaller retail spaces the island doesn't need when they open their shiny new facility with its own requisite sea of parking. And probably a pharmacy.

I wish A&P was still around. And that I could still buy my sneakers at Sport's Locker, go to wing night downtown at a locally owned restaurant and that we never saw vacant retail space in town. CVS might be the worst thing to happen to the island but I doubt it. I bet their store brand pasta sauce is more affordable than Whole Foods'.

We're not debating big brand vs locally owned here. It's big brand with a reputation we don't like (myself included) and a strategy aimed at increasing grocery offerings vs various other big brands we hope might come but who haven't shown any interest. Or a pricey gourmet grocery. In my opinion Bartlett's has that covered.

I'm certain becuase they are a massive off island brand. And that brand screams, "pharmacy." They will harm the local pharmacies. I have never seen a CVS that has a bakery and a butcher. It's off brand. Go on their web site. They do not feature such an offering. It's a solution that does not fit our needs. 

This is not a time to be wishy washy. If we blink, we could have a big, ugly off-island chain here. And that would be wrong, just from an aesthetic sense. At least Grand Union and A&P were somewhat old school and not major brands (A&P was at one time, but not now). A CVS would be an abomination.  

Anyone who is okay with this is really not in tune with what this island is about. In my opinion. 

G. 

Or it might be a grocery store. The CVS I shopped at in DC nearly 10 years ago sold flowers, milk, yogurt and cheese. Their newer stores sell fresh produce, have salad bars and sell prepared foods. And they determine what they sell by what the customers need. If a deli is what is needed to get customers in the store I think CVS can run a deli. Many Stop & Shops operate pharmacies.

Grand Union didn't make it. Matt's friends in the grocery business report little or no interest in opening a grocery in that location. But CVS is expanding in the region and expanding the breadth of products they carry. That's exactly the type of business which will be able to absorb the costs of doing business on Nantucket while offering palatable prices.

If CVS is proposing to operate a 12,000 square foot pharmacy I wouldn't support it (I'm not supporting CVS over any other chain that might operate a grocery) but I doubt that's what we'll see. Far more likely that they'll offer whatever they need to offer to get you in the door. I'm not willing to settle for a solution that doesn't fit my needs. I'm just not sure CVS can't fit my needs. How are you, Grant, so certain they can't fit yours?

Sounds like a combo Cummbies/Pharmacy and little else.  

Right, lets not be so quick to settle just because it sounds more palatable than the shock value of a CVS... feels like we are being played... This community needs competition for stop and shop because they know they have us in a strangle hold on basic needs..and last I checked gourmet takeout and an olive and wine bar is not it. We have great pharmacies run by neighbors who care about this community who we need to support and protect... and with half the island on state insurance ..they may not have not choice but to switch to CVS for prescriptions. This is worth a fight

I feel the same way when I walk Main st Grant. Never stepped foot in Ralph and fight the need to spit when passing that abomination that used to be my drug store. for the record G I totally supported "bag the market" it was right at that time..who could have know what would become of us over the next twenty years.. I also look eagerly to see what the valero family will do...they have run a solid local business ..I like their agricultural focus and trust and look forward to seeing what they do with their property.

Prepackaged salads and sandwiches do not make a grocery store. What about cheese? Dairy? Yogurt? Produce? A bakery? A butcher? Flowers? Deli? Without these things, people will still need to go out of town. And with a CVS there, local drug stores will suffer. 

I'm not certain why people are willing to settle for a solution that does not fit our needs. The community is the conumer and we say who gets our money. I still will not set foot in a CVS in the OHD. Just as I will never step into the Ralph Lauren store. I don't beleive in them. They are an affront to me. 

I'm among the many who believe we do need a grocery in the space. But I'm not sure CVS can't be the operator. A little Googling shows that CVS has opened larger stores with expanded grocery offerings over that last couple years. The new stores sound a lot like other grocery stores - they do sell produce, have salad bars and prepared sandwiches. Here's an article printed in June 2010 in the Patriot Ledger about the expanded offerings: http://tinyurl.com/d5ghl5x  And here's a shorter one from May 2010: http://tinyurl.com/cledq4j

Nothing in these articles about a butcher but the strategy seems to be to fit the store to the location. "We have a select group of stores currently reconfigured where we are tailoring our assortment to how the consumer shops that store," Dave Denton, chief financial officer of CVS told Bloomberg.

Aside from the name CVS being associated primarily with small pharmacies what would be the problem? What constitutes a grocery anyway?